Summer Series 2 – Why children need challenges

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Natalie Moutafis  

Hi everyone, and welcome to isPodcast Summer Series. I’m Natalie Moutafis. 

We’ve had some wonderful guests on isPodcast over the last two years, so Mike, Shane and I have each picked a story we think is worth resharing over the summer break. I’m recommending Shane Green’s discussion with Dr. Judith Locke, the author of The Bonsai Child and The Bonsai Student, about how doing too much of a good thing for your kids can lead to overparenting.   

Shane Green:  

We're joined by Dr. Judith Locke, clinical psychologist, former teacher, and of course, author of the popular, The Bonsai Child, and the sequel, The Bonsai Student. Judith, welcome to isPodcast.  

Judith Locke:  

Thank you. My pleasure.  

Shane Green:  

Judith, we're here to talk about the new book, The Bonsai Student. But let's wind back to the first book, The Bonsai Child. It's a very evocative image. Basically, what can happen when there's overparenting.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah. Absolutely. And look, it's funny because I had been thinking about The Bonsai Child as a term for some time, it was all kind of crystallised for me when I was in the Huntington Gardens near Pasadena in California and, I saw this thing that was on a tree, this sort of information for children, where it was talking about the fact that trees need wind to grow stronger.  

It just absolutely brought it all together for me, where I just thought, yes, of course, we need challenge to grow stronger. We can't just have children growing up as these kind of heavily nurtured, perfect sort of experiences. They do have to experience all range of sort of challenges and not just have this perfect life, or else they're truly not ready for the future.  

Shane Green:  

Now, this will sound familiar to many parents. How common is this approach?  

Judith Locke:  

Look, my research suggested anywhere between 40 or 60 per cent of parents at Independent schools. I researched parents in Independent schools in Brisbane. Even when I go around and talk to schools around the country, I find that most of them are saying that; it's quite a proportion of the population.  

And it's probably on a continuum. I don't think you are either a Bonsai parent or not. I think possibly in some areas, parents might be a little bit overdoing the effort, giving their child too perfect a childhood. But for others, they're more extreme. So, it just kind of depends on where you are.  

Shane Green:  

You're talking about the extreme there, and I do remember one very telling anecdote from The Bonsai Child, that we featured on The Parents Website back in 2016. It was about what teachers were noticing when it came time for the school camp, with some students in Years 5 and 6.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah. Teachers noticing that children couldn't dress themselves, didn't sort of know what to do. Couldn't even take their plate to the community sort of kitchen and things like that.  

So, it becomes really problematic that the parent has done so much for the child, that they're not ready for what should be an age-appropriate experience. It's funny, I even heard another anecdote about school camp recently, where some teachers are reporting that children don't want to go on school camp, which, it's very unusual now, because most times school camp was much more fun than your home environment.  

I suppose with things like TV, endless amounts of TV stations and that sort of thing, school camp, they sort of see it as being, not as an entertaining thing in their life.  

But these teachers were talking about the fact that some parents now offer their children money to go to school camp. So, they pay them per night to go to school camp, which is just absolutely crazy. The child should be wanting to go to that and wanting to have the experience of that.  

It's funny how often schools see the problems via these school camps, where kids aren't really comfortable in separating from their parents, or don't know what to do when they're away from their parents.  

Shane Green:  

That's quite amazing. Of course, we see cases of separation anxiety, but not to that extreme.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah, absolutely. And look, a lot of problems that are being experienced by many schools is that parents still try and stay close to their child. So, you'll get parents booking into hotels near the school camp site, and things like that, and wanting their child to go to camp throughout the day and then come back to the parent at night, because the child can't be away from their parent.  

Now, yes, that might be an anxiety issue, but often, and really that should be treated by therapy that enables them to go to the school camp next year. That's not a fait accompli, if they do have a sort of an anxiety, that separation anxiety that is treatable, definitely the parents should be highly involved in that.  

But the thing that's sort of concerning is that they might actually find it a much more pleasant experience to be with their parent for the night, rather than with their friends, because their parents are doing everything for them, and sort of giving them all the indulgences and things like that.  

And really, particularly in about Year 5 or Year 6, children should want to be with their friends more than their parents. That really is developmentally what should be happening. For a child still to be clinging to the parent does not bode well for them having a full and interesting life.  

Shane Green:  

I think it's particularly significant, you don't use the term 'helicopter parenting'. Can you explain why the terminology is so important?  

Judith Locke:  

Really, technically, in terms of academic research, helicopter parenting is much more relevant to children at university, when hovering around your adult child, when they're going to university, is developmentally inappropriate.  

It is developmentally appropriate for you to still be near your child when they're young, and not allowing them to go to a park when they're six years old without being present. That would be under-parenting.  

But over-parenting is kind of good ideas gone too far. For example, it's not allowing them to get on public transport, even though public transport is safe when they're in high school years, or still doing their homework for them in high school, that's where it becomes really problematic.  

So, it's good intentions, but gone too far. And like overeating is just doing too much of a good thing and overexercising is doing too much of a good thing, overparenting is doing too much of the good things of parenting, which risks harming the child in developing their essential skills and independence.  

Shane Green:  

I think you've also coined a new term: the Sherpa parent.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah. Sherpa parenting is a term I've recently come up with, and it was following me seeing a mother pushing her two children up a hill. The two children were on scooters. The children weren't pushing the scooters themselves. The mother also had their two schoolbags on her back and was physically pushing them up.  

She really did look like a Sherpa, somebody who's carrying all the difficult equipment, and the person is just in front of them climbing the mountain, unencumbered by any sort of responsibility.  

I know in the mountaineering community, they talk about, well if you climb a mountain with a Sherpa, are you really climbing? Or are you kind of just day tripping with someone doing all the hard work?  

I think when parents carry their child's bag into school, when they're doing all this sort of hard work of it all, even in Year 12, if they're taking on all the child's chores that year and not making them do anything difficult, just to allow them just to do Year 12, that sort of Sherpa parenting doesn't truly prepare them for the future.  

All of these terms, they're terms, they're sort of evocative images that I hope sort of make a connection with parents. It's still just overdoing it, but it just gives it a bit of richness for people to understand it more easily.  

Shane Green:  

Now to The Bonsai Student. Firstly, congratulations. It's a tremendous resource. The book was the logical next step.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah. Thank you. Yes, it was. Originally, The Bonsai Student was actually a chapter in The Bonsai Child, but it was such a huge chapter that I realised that it would be better as a standalone resource.  

So, I pulled that chapter out of The Bonsai Child, and then developed it is a whole book, because there's so many topics, such as homework, the morning routine, the afternoon routine, report cards, and things like that. So, I thought it was much better to sort of make it into its own resource.  

Shane Green:  

You've got a great section on schooling 101. Basically, it's about parents knowing what's happening at school and what's expected of their child.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah, absolutely. I really wanted to push in the book that schooling is not just about academic results. It’s not. I think we've gone that way too far with leaderboards and stuff like that, where schools are being compared just on their academic results.  

I think academics, yes are important, but other things are much more important, like developing community mindedness, developing social skills, developing an interest in the world, and that sort of thing. So, that's much more important than just good marks. I would argue if a child is just there to get good marks, they're certainly not getting the best out of the school.  

Shane Green:  

You mentioned life skills. In fact, you identify five essential skills.  

Judith Locke:  

Yeah. That's probably one of the favourite chapters I've ever written, on the five essential skills, because I talk about each one of them:   

Resilience, the ability to face difficulty.  

Self-regulation, which is the ability to stop current pleasure for future gain – so doing the sort of tough things now for future enjoyment, like studying hard or doing your homework.  

Resourcefulness, which is being able to solve problems as they come up, not relying on other people to do that.  

Respect, of course respect for authority figures, but also respect for the rights of others and playing the games that your friends want to play and things like that.  

The last one is Responsibility. Responsibility is an extension of respect towards the sort of thing where you are seeing your role in the community to actually be enhancing the community, to not be more about your rights than your responsibilities. Standing for people on the bus, older people on the bus and things like that.  

Those five skills are essential, but unfortunately, some really well-meant parenting practices now may sort of thwart the development of those skills.  

So, I talk about how that happens, what to look out for in your child, if they've got these skills, and then what to do, if you see them lacking in any of these areas.  

Shane Green:  

Judith, I'm sure many parents listening will be thinking 'That's me!' And they might be despairing when they recognise they've been overparenting, but your message is, it's never too late?  

Judith Locke:  

It's never too late. I've got to say it does get a little bit harder, the older that they are. I would much prefer parents to read this when their children are younger, to sort of make sure that they're sort of slightly altering things now to change the trajectory.  

But look, I've worked with parents of 20-year-olds. I've worked with parents of children who finished university, and you can turn it around. There are real strategies in both books about turning things around, and the big key message of both books, particularly in terms of schoolwork, it's very much about stepping back so the child steps up – the very act of a parent stepping back, not reminding them to do their homework, not waking them up 20 times every morning to go to school and things like that.  

When you step back from that and allow them to experience the consequences of their choices, that in itself should start to alter behaviour. But of course, it gets much harder if your child is in Year 12 and you're only starting that then. I always recommend that you start earlier, but look, it's not impossible to change, if it's been going on for some time.  

Shane Green:  

Judith, thanks so much for your time. So many great insights and ideas. Thanks for joining us on isPodcast.  

Judith Locke:  

My pleasure, and happy stepping back everybody.  

Shane Green:  

You can find out more about Judith's work and the books on the link we'll provide on the program's website.